Tami Steggell – founder, CEO, and tastebud influencer

Recorded in Tami’s office at RubySnap HQ

Tami Steggell on LinkedIn

RubySnap Fresh Cookies

Bite Me Industries

Book Recommendations: Start With the Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action by Simon Sinek, Delivering Happiness: A Path to Profits, Passion, and Purpose by Tony Hsieh, and How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie

This episode features Tami Steggell, a creative entrepreneur who founded RubySnap, a bakery known for its unique and delicious cookies. Tami shares her journey, emphasizing the importance of loving the process and listening to one’s intuition. She recounted a significant milestone in 2018 when RubySnap expanded rapidly, opening five stores and entering 165 grocery stores. However, Tami realized that bigger wasn’t necessarily better and that she wasn’t enjoying the journey as much. She decided to close the additional stores and withdraw from the grocery stores, which led to immediate happiness for her and her staff. This decision also fortuitously protected the business when the COVID-19 pandemic hit shortly after.

Tami describes herself as a person whose mind never stops creating. She spends her day at work creating and continues to do so when she gets home. She also runs a personal food blog, Bite Me Industries, which she started as a hobby to create a balance between her work and personal life. The blog grew popular and developed its own following.

Tami’s mission with RubySnap is to empower people to enjoy truly delicious food made with wholesome, clean ingredients. She believes that if one is going to indulge in a treat, it should be something the body can celebrate. This philosophy also extends to her food blog, where she shares 60 to 90-second tutorials on how to make amazing food at home.

In terms of management, Tami emphasizes a supportive and flexible work culture. She believes in having her employees’ backs and accommodating their real-life situations. This approach, she says, creates a close-knit group and a positive work environment. She also shares that she writes all her recipes in both the metric system and Spanish, adding another layer to her creative process.

Looking forward, Tami expresses her readiness to grow RubySnap beyond Salt Lake City, particularly in the Western states. She has prepared for this expansion by obtaining HACCP (Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Points) certification. Despite the challenges she has faced, Tami remains committed to her goal and is ready to take RubySnap to new heights.

Kyle Knowles:
Hello there. Welcome to the Maker Manager Money Podcast, a podcast about entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, founders, business owners, and business partnerships. From startups to stay ups, to inspire entrepreneurs to keep going, and future entrepreneurs to just start. My name is Kyle Knowles, and I’m just trying to make some cool content on a Wednesday evening. I’m recording in the beautiful RubySnap headquarters. I’m actually in RubySnap’s founder’s-

Tami Steggell:
Office.

Kyle Knowles:
Office, yes.

Tami Steggell:
This is cool.

Kyle Knowles:
Yeah, I’m in the building right next to the RubySnap retail store in downtown Salt Lake City. And of course, today’s guest is Tami Steggell, Founder of RubySnap Bakery. RubySnap… It’s not bakery.

Tami Steggell:
Fresh Cookies.

Kyle Knowles:
Fresh cookies. RubySnap Fresh Cookies, and Bite Me Industries. Her favorite pastime is recipe development, ingredient and nutrition research, and sharing all that knowledge with her fans and customers. She regularly appears on Studio 5 KSL, teaches cooking classes at Orson… Is it…

Tami Steggell:
Gygi.

Kyle Knowles:
GyGi.

Tami Steggell:
Yep.

Kyle Knowles:
And is a professional baker, chef, recipe developer, and mother to seven children. Tami grew up in Saudi Arabia, got a degree in architectural design from BYU, and spent 15 years as an architectural designer before cashing $10,000 out of her 401K to found RubySnap Fresh Cookies in 2008. Tami, welcome to the Maker Manager Money Podcast.

Tami Steggell:
Thank you. Happy to be here.

Kyle Knowles:
All right. So what things are you going to do to celebrate being in business for 15 years?

Tami Steggell:
Well, we actually had a 15-year anniversary in February, and we did a blitz week where we brought back 15 specials for that week only. It was really phenomenal and we had so much fun, that we’re going to repeat it again this coming October. And do-

Kyle Knowles:
For your 16-year anniversary?

Tami Steggell:
Well, we’re still… We’re doing 15… It’s still our 15th year.

Kyle Knowles:
It’s still 15. Okay.

Tami Steggell:
And so we just thought it was so much fun to have all that buzz and hubbub happening in the bakery, that we’re going to repeat it in October. And I’ve spent all summer developing a new recipe every week just for fun, just to push the limits and explore new ideas. So we’ll be featuring some of those recipes in October.

Kyle Knowles:
Awesome. So what is your favorite cookie?

Tami Steggell:
Well, I feel like I am my best critic, and I am selling to me, so I am my best customer. So if I like it, then that cookie makes it into the lineup. And if I don’t like it, it’s not going to make it into the lineup. So I like them all.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay. You don’t have a favorite. You can only have one cookie before you go on vacation, which one are you choosing?

Tami Steggell:
Okay, if I did a daily cookie, I would probably, today, pick the snickerdudette, which is an horchata snickerdoodle. In the past, I have just been in love with Penelope, it’s peanut butter dipped in chocolate, and also our dark molasses ginger, which is Virginia, have always been my go-tos, but I’ve recently, in the last year, converted to the snickerdudette. It’s so good. So that’s a daily. Out of our specials, probably Isabella. It is a pumpkin hazelnut, and I soak raisins in a hazelnut liqueur for a year, and they caramelize, and then that goes into the dough and then they percolate throughout the dough when they bake. And then I put a Frangelico mascarpone on top, which is hazelnut liqueur.

Kyle Knowles:
That’s awesome.

Tami Steggell:
So Isabella is probably my favorite. Just kind of a classic special.

Kyle Knowles:
All right, I’m going to have to try that one. I did some research and some due diligence and ordered a few, so I’ve had the peanut butter, and I did like that one a lot.

Tami Steggell:
Good.

Kyle Knowles:
So I’m a big peanut butter fan, especially with chocolate.

Tami Steggell:
I think I ate that every day for about five years.

Kyle Knowles:
That’s awesome. Yeah, what were some of the key milestones over the past 15 years? Whether it’s employee grow… Going… Hitting, I don’t know, five employees, or 10 employees, or sales…

Tami Steggell:
I think one of our really big milestones was we grew really big really fast in 2018, and I realized that bigger isn’t better, better is better. And I also realized that I wasn’t loving the journey, and I made a promise to myself or early on that I would do RubySnap so long as I love the journey. And I got to a point where I’m like, “Wow, I’m not loving the journey, so I better course correct.” And that’s what I did, and we closed down those five stores, and we withdrew from 165 states, or excuse me, 165 grocery stores, and myself and my staff were immediately happier within a week.
And then about two weeks later, COVID was announced. And so that decision alone really protected our business and kept us in a place of strength, versus it would’ve put us in a place of weakness at that period in our history. So I think that’s kind of a good lesson to listen to your gut. So if you’re an entrepreneur out there, and you’re brand new, definitely listen to your gut, because it’s telling you something and it usually is steering you in the right direction.

Kyle Knowles:
What were some of the reasons why you weren’t enjoying the journey?

Tami Steggell:
Because I had to ask myself, “Are you doing it just to be bigger? Are you doing it just to make more revenue?” On paper, it looked fantastic. We were making a couple million dollars more a year, but in reality, I was living on an airplane, I was training employees 6:00 AM to 10:00 PM Monday through Sunday, and I was forfeiting memories with my family for building a business. And so I decided that there’s a time and a season for everything. And I felt like at that time in my life, it was stick to the family, and now I’m an empty nester, so now is a better time to grow the company.

Kyle Knowles:
Nice. I like that answer. So who are you?

Tami Steggell:
I am a person who’s extremely creative, and my head never stops thinking. I am always creating. So long as I’m breathing, I am creating. And I love it more than anything. So I come to work, I work really hard all day, and most of that time is creating generally something, or orchestrating, or navigating, or what do you call it? Air traffic controlling decisions, but when I go home, I create more, and I create until I go to bed. And I do that for a personal food blog, because I want to empower people to feel like they’re capable. And that, I feel, is my mission. So my mission at RubySnap is to empower people to have something truly delicious that is well-thought-out, that is made with wholesome, clean, wonderful ingredients that are free of preservatives and shortenings and yucky stuff that your body can’t celebrate.
So the idea is give your body something it can celebrate eating if you’re going to have a treat, but also, I always consider myself the chubby athlete. I feel like that follows me wherever I go. So I feel like if I’m going to eat something, I want it to be amazing. Life’s too short to just have crappy food. So that’s how Bite Me Industries was built, because I wanted to show people, having awesome food at home isn’t hard. You just have to be a little bit thoughtful in your grocery shopping, but it also doesn’t take forever. And so I do 60 to 90-second tutorials on how to make something amazing at home.

Kyle Knowles:
So the genesis of Bite Me Industries is you wanted an outlet outside of RubySnap to continue creating?

Tami Steggell:
Yes, actually that’s the truth, because I felt like I didn’t have a cutoff line for RubySnap. So I was just staying at RubySnap until 10:00 every night. So I needed to create a hobby or an excuse to leave so that I was happy to come back the next day, instead of getting to a place in my heart where I was resenting it. And I was here by choice, so it’s not… But I just needed some deviation. So I started Bite Me Industries, and then people just started paying attention and it kind of grew legs of its own.

Kyle Knowles:
So that’s your personal food blog?

Tami Steggell:
Yep.

Kyle Knowles:
Yeah, okay. So the podcast is called Maker Manager Money, and you’ve given me all kinds of indications that you’re more of a maker than a manager, or you’re a dual threat, because obviously you’re a CEO/Founder running a business, so you started as a maker, then you’ve had to move into becoming a manager. And then sometimes what I found in interviewing other entrepreneurs is that that transition is hard, and then they’re not creating as much, but what you did is you established an outlet to go home to that you could then-

Tami Steggell:
Create more.

Kyle Knowles:
…. continue to be a maker. Be more of a maker than a manager.

Tami Steggell:
Yes. Because here, I become more of a, yeah, an air traffic controller, where I’m navigating things all day long, and more of an administrator. And the thing that made me start RubySnap was that love of creating. And I feel like without creating, I feel like my soul is missing. But I’m very methodical. I’m both creative and very structured and organized, so it’s kind of a good little match for running a business, because I do care about details and intelligence and tracking information and training and teaching people really well, and building a culture that feels congruent to the brand and congruent to a high level of happiness, which is something that is really important to me. I’m like, “This is my life, I get to build it the way I want, so I want to be happy at work, I want to be happy outside of work, and please don’t interrupt my happiness.”

Kyle Knowles:
Oh, that’s a great thing for any founder to ask of their business. Please do not interrupt my happiness.

Tami Steggell:
My happiness.

Kyle Knowles:
It should be a t-shirt or something.

Tami Steggell:
Yeah.

Kyle Knowles:
I like that.

Tami Steggell:
For real. Yeah.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay. Well, so I met your social media manager just a few minutes ago, but you did something with social media in 2020. I think it was during the pandemic, you started a TikTok channel. Tell me about how social media and creating content helped you to feel that maker, kind of creative self.

Tami Steggell:
Yeah. So I guess if I rewind really far, when I first started RubySnap, I was a one-man band. So I had to figure out how to do graphic design and how to do photography, and again, it’s part of the creative process, so anything creative is really attractive to me. And I really loved doing the social media, because I love sharing my personality, and I love doing the photography, I love it all. But it got to a point where it started feeling a little overwhelming. So recently we added a full-time social media manager, but we tag team really well together, and we brainstorm really well together, and I am still the voice, and most of the time you’re still talking to me. If you DM, I am still talking to you. But it was really hard for me to let go of that.

Kyle Knowles:
I bet.

Tami Steggell:
And early on, there were a lot of things that were hard for me to let go, no matter what it was, like just managing the bakery. I had a bakery manager for eight years now, but I’ve gotten really good at delegating. I just feel like I’ll train you really well, I don’t want to micromanage you, I’m going to trust you until you give me a reason not to trust you, and it empowers people to do a really good job because if you train them well, and then you display a high level of trust, then they don’t want to let you down. And so if you’re an entrepreneur that is struggling with letting go or delegating, it’s not a bad thing. It just frees you up to grow more and learn something new.

Kyle Knowles:
Yeah, it seems like it would be very hard to scale if you still had your hands in everything.

Tami Steggell:
Yeah, you can’t. It’s not possible.

Kyle Knowles:
So talk to me about creating content for RubySnap. And it sounds like, okay, now you’ve hired someone else to do that for RubySnap, but you’re creating all your content for Bite Me Industries, right?

Tami Steggell:
Yeah. So I’m still doing it, yeah.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay. And then how did you learn, I don’t know, video editing skills, or how to create cool videos? Because I’ve gone through your feeds on TikTok and Instagram, and they’re awesome. So how did you learn that?

Tami Steggell:
I don’t feel like I ever took the time to actually educate myself on how to edit videos. I do it all on my telephone. I have a little magnetic tripod that I just set up in my kitchen, and I just start doing what I’m doing. And then I downloaded InShot on my phone, and I just edit it right there on InShot. And you can edit out sound, you can dub in sound, you can phase into new phases of your video, and I’ll probably get a little bit more sophisticated as time goes on, but I don’t have a lot of extra time, but I do want to share content with people. So usually I’ll film it at night when I’m creating dinner or whatever I’m doing, and then edit it in the morning and publish it before I come to work.

Kyle Knowles:
Nice. And so does InShot allow you to do animation style? Becuase I know you have different cookies building up on a tray, and those kinds of things.

Tami Steggell:
Oh, like stop motion?

Kyle Knowles:
Stop motion, yeah.

Tami Steggell:
Yeah. That sometimes can be 50 to 150 photos that are shot back to back to back. And then… Yeah, you can also do that in InShot. Or you can do it in Canva, you can do it… There’s lots of ways to do it. But InShot was one way that I did it, except for… Is that you?

Kyle Knowles:
Oh, that was me.

Tami Steggell:
Oh, okay.

Kyle Knowles:
I think that was my phone.

Tami Steggell:
In Lightroom, you can batch edit your photos, so you can edit one, and then just batch edit like 150. And then I can import it into InShot onto my iPhone from a Dropbox or a cloud, and then I can say I want every frame to be 0.2 of a second, and it’ll just do it all for me.

Kyle Knowles:
So cool.

Tami Steggell:
Yeah.

Kyle Knowles:
So you just figured it out, and you just tried things, and you saw what was working and what wasn’t working? Is that kind of your approach?

Tami Steggell:
Yeah, that’s actually a little bit recent in the last year is the stop motion. And that actually was a gal that used to work here, that was kind of her side hobby since she was a little kid. And so she’s actually the one that really brought it to RubySnap. So we hired her, and then she decided she wanted to chase a different kind of career. And so I took it over for a while. And then our new social, we call her a curator, has been doing a really good job spinning it to her own version of what stop motion looks like.

Kyle Knowles:
What other tools have you used as a founder and business owner that you just use every day and you just can’t live without?

Tami Steggell:
Oh, I love… Adobe Illustrator is one of my favorite things that I super love, and I know Canva is kind of kicking Adobe Illustrator to the curb. Sorry, Adobe, because I love you so much. But I use Photoshop daily. Daily, daily, daily. And I just will do really quick… I never really slowed down to become a really good photographer, but I feel like I have a good eye for design, and so I’ll just basically white balance all my photos in Photoshop. I don’t really do anything else. I rely on the shot just being a good shot with good color, good lighting, and then I just give it a quick white balance if you know what that means. But yeah, I’ve never really learned how to navigate Lightroom. Someday, maybe I will, but I usually study nutrition is what I do in my extra time.

Kyle Knowles:
So you use Illustrator to create all of your packaging and your brand?

Tami Steggell:
Yeah, so Illustrator I use for graphic design if I need to do anything for the website or packaging design. And I really love that. I think that would’ve been a great career in another life is to do packaging design, because I could just see it. I could see spaces when I was doing architectural design. I could just see things come to life. And I’ll build little mini Barbie size models first, so that we can see it in 3-D how it looks.

Kyle Knowles:
That’s really cool. And what is Canva starting to do for you that maybe you used Illustrator and Photoshop for before?

Tami Steggell:
I don’t use Canva a lot, because I’m so fast at navigating Illustrator, but I feel like the up and coming generation is using Canva a lot. And I’ve used it once or twice to cheat a little bit. I call it cheating, where I can swap out a background really quick, where I’ve never done that before, I just rely on the background that I’ve created for the shot. But if I’m like, “Hmm, I didn’t like blue, I’m going to swap that out for black or red,” Canva will let you do that in two seconds. And I’m like, “Wow.” It’ll let you put really cool shadows on it, and so sometimes I kind of feel like it’s cheating a little bit, but I mean it is technology, and it’s really good for if you want certain kinds of graphic looks.

Kyle Knowles:
Yeah, for sure. And I feel like a lot of the up and coming generation have used it because they really focused on schools, and so a lot of schools use it, and thousands of templates in there, you can swap things out, do everything from-

Tami Steggell:
Oh yeah, they’re smart.

Kyle Knowles:
… wedding invitations to brochures, to resumes, to video editing, all kinds of stuff.

Tami Steggell:
Really savvy stuff, yeah.

Kyle Knowles:
It’s pretty incredible. Okay, so why are you here?

Tami Steggell:
Why am I here?

Kyle Knowles:
On the earth.

Tami Steggell:
Oh, I think that I was here to bring creativity to people. I think… I’m also very patient, I’m also a total lover. I love everyone, and you could do something really bad to me, and I’m still going to love you. I don’t know, I just think I was here to create a pleasing place for people. I feel like one thing that we train in the bakery is we want people to feel happier when they leave, than the moment they walked in. And we work really hard to live that level of happiness behind the counter as well. But I think that I just care about peacefulness, if that makes sense. And obviously happiness.

Kyle Knowles:
Nice. And I think that points to what you want. As far as RubySnap goes, where do you see it headed, and what do you want for Ruby Snap?

Tami Steggell:
I would like to see it grow. I’m ready. I have the head space for it now. I think that RubySnap belongs more places than just Salt Lake City. I think Utah is really saturated. I’d love to grow out of state, especially in the Western states. I feel like the Western Belt is really strong economically, and I’m ready for it. And so I have gone through some HACCP certification, which is hazardous and critical control points, so that I could just be ready for any scenario that comes my way. And so I’m good at rocking and rolling. When I make a goal, I’m ready to go for it. And I stick to it.

Kyle Knowles:
Nice. Okay, so let’s talk about the RubySnap brand a little bit. Where did Ruby come from, RubySnap, and the colors and the logo? How did that-

Tami Steggell:
Yeah, that’s really fun, because I love history. I love world history, but specifically I loved just that idealism of World War II, where people just came together to save the day. And I definitely romanticize it. And so during World War I, the male flyers were nicknamed the Doughboys, and in World War II, the female women air service pilots who came forward to help when there was a shortage of men, were nicknamed the Doughgirls. And so our original bakery was called Doughgirl, until that trademark was taken away.
So I wanted to stick with that theme, and just kind of honor that sense of yesteryear when food was just made… It was made in your kitchen by grandma, it was awesome, it came out of the fields, it was wholesome, it was good, which is everything that emulates how we develop recipes here, is just wholesome, good, clean, because real food tastes really good. So when we changed our name to RubySnap, I wanted it to sound like a call name if you’re a female flyer. And so I took a name and a phrase from the 40s. Ruby was a name, and snap was a phrase from the 40s, but I put a whole bunch of them together. About 350.

Kyle Knowles:
Are you serious?

Tami Steggell:
And I narrowed it down to two, and one of them was Lily Tango, but I couldn’t say it. I couldn’t get it out of my mouth. I applied both for trademarks with USTPO, and they were both accepted, and RubySnap just rose to the top. And it felt natural to me, and it feels fun and playful and sassy and lighthearted, and I just liked everything about it. So that’s how I got the name RubySnap.

Kyle Knowles:
All right. And then I love how you’ve used it. Even, “Oh, snap,” on your shopping cart, I think when you check out or something, there’s some kind of, “Oh, snap.” And then, “Hey there hot stuff,” and all these other kinds of playful phrases and stuff. The brand is really strong. I really love the brand.

Tami Steggell:
I love the brand too. I really do. It just feels good. And I feel happy about it, I feel proud of it, and I never bemoan how hard I work, because I love what I do. All day, every day.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay. What’s your superpower then? It sounds like you have a lot of different gifts and skills. What is your superpower? What would you think your superpower is?

Tami Steggell:
I feel endless creativity. I feel like my super superpower is flavor development, and how I unite flavors, maybe even things that don’t belong in the same sentence, where I can bring things together, and bring them to life, and wake up your palette. I feel like that’s my superpower and my super passion.

Kyle Knowles:
Yeah, I would agree with that, because I’m a huge fan of oatmeal cookies, and when I had your oatmeal cookie, I for sure just mentally thought it was raisin in there, and it wasn’t raisin, right?

Tami Steggell:
Yeah.

Kyle Knowles:
Isn’t it apricot and cherry or something? Something like that.

Tami Steggell:
Yeah. It’s apricots and dried cherries.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay. I loved it. I loved that cookie. That was probably my favorite cookie that I’ve tried of yours so far.

Tami Steggell:
That cookie, if you bake it fresh in your oven at home, like hot cookie a la mode, it’s like having a cobbler. And it is so good.

Kyle Knowles:
That’s a good idea.

Tami Steggell:
Eat it five minutes out of the oven. You can purchase the pre-portioned frozen cookie dough here in our bakery. We don’t offer it in stores. We could, just never printed packaging for it.

Kyle Knowles:
But maybe in the future.

Tami Steggell:
Yeah.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay, nice. All right. I know you’re always cooking at home, but if you go out to eat, I don’t know if you ever do go out to eat, but what are your go-tos?

Tami Steggell:
If I’m going to lunch on a workday, I love Sapa, which is just around the corner from RubySnap. If I am going out to dinner for my birthday, I really like The Dodo in Sugarhouse. I love sushi, but I feel like nobody else in my family does. So I usually do that in secret on my own.

Kyle Knowles:
And where do you go for sushi?

Tami Steggell:
I used to go to a place called… They closed down, and they were by my house. Dang, the name has slipped. I can’t remember it right at the moment. But I do like sushi, I love Indian food, Himalayan Kitchen, has really good Indian food, so yeah, I’m a food lover, but we do prefer eating at home. And because of that, I have built out my kitchen and dining room to feel like a restaurant, because my husband literally is like, “I would rather eat at home. Your cooking is so much better.” So it literally feels like you’re entering a restaurant. Like it’s-

Kyle Knowles:
Is it a booth? What is it?

Tami Steggell:
It’s kind of booth style, and these big, huge, giant oversized lights. And anyway, it’s kind of funny, but that’s why I built it out that way, because I wanted to feel like I was going out while I was still at home.

Kyle Knowles:
We’re going out, but I’m doing all this work, so…

Tami Steggell:
Well, we’re a good team. We cook and clean together, and more hands makes light work.

Kyle Knowles:
Did any of your children… Now, you have seven children, correct? Did any of them follow in your footsteps, and are any of them good cooks? Good chefs?

Tami Steggell:
Well, I don’t want to offend anybody, because you’re all awesome, but I definitely have one daughter that is very interested in cooking. That’s not what she does for a career, but she’s very good at it. And yeah, we love to swap and share a lot of recipes together.

Kyle Knowles:
Nice. Were any of your parents or family entrepreneurs?

Tami Steggell:
No, not at all. In fact, I think my parents thought I was crazy. And I’m kind of the accidental entrepreneur. I never set out to be one. And I think that the best entrepreneurs are built by accident, because you’re chasing a passion that is congruent with who you are, rather than chasing the almighty dollar, if that makes sense. I feel like when you’re genuine, the money just follows. But yeah, no. My parents were not entrepreneurs. My dad’s an engineer, electrical engineer, and my mom was a stay at home mom, and she was a really good cook.

Kyle Knowles:
Do you feel like that’s where you got your inspiration to cook things, is from your mom?

Tami Steggell:
She was definitely a very strong example, but we also traveled the world. And so I really had this great taste for international food, and just kind of a love and appreciation for all kinds of cultural food. And I feel that those things inspire me a lot. And that’s why I think sometimes I do irreverent things, where I am combining two cultures together, like two spices that come from different cultures and things like that.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay, I noticed that in one of the cookies that I had, I was like, “Is there a hint of something else in here? This is not your typical…” I can’t remember which one I ordered, but I was like, “There’s something different about this one.”

Tami Steggell:
Oh, I’d be curious. Yeah, I might put hints of things in very small amounts, and maybe not call it out. I might not emphasize that that’s in there, but it definitely builds flavor. And I build flavor a lot with fruits and vegetables too.

Kyle Knowles:
Not just spices?

Tami Steggell:
Mm-hmm.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay. So you had a wide-ranging palate, basically, from living in all these different places.

Tami Steggell:
Right.

Kyle Knowles:
And where was the place that was your favorite place that you lived growing up?

Tami Steggell:
I don’t know, but I definitely love that Middle Eastern flair. I love so many things. I love rice and hummus and tahini and just rich, deep flavors. I love Persian food, I love Indian food, I love it all. I really do. And I feel like there’s so many cultures who really reverence food and treat it like a true art, and I don’t know if we always do that in America. We’re very convenienced. And I love Balinese food. That’s probably my all time favorite, actually, because it’s just fresh, fresh, fresh.

Kyle Knowles:
And what would that be? Give me an example of a dish.

Tami Steggell:
It’s probably… They do a lot of… Nasi campur is one of my favorite. It’s a tempeh dish with a bunch of sumbals that surround the tempeh and rice, and it’s just amazing. They use a lot of fish, where they… Almost like a sardine where it’s mashed down, but it’s a very subtle sub flavor to dishes. But all things fresh. They got the coconut off the tree that second, roasted it, shredded it, added it to a dish. They use a lot of pandan leaves, which they make beautiful green crepes and fresh banana crepes and fresh everything. They have a dish for breakfast called iam borbor, which is basically a chicken and rice porridge, for breakfast. Everything they make is just absolutely delicious.

Kyle Knowles:
But you have to go there to eat that.

Tami Steggell:
Yes.

Kyle Knowles:
There’s no place in Utah that you can go get any of that?

Tami Steggell:
No.

Kyle Knowles:
So you have to get on a plane.

Tami Steggell:
Yeah.

Kyle Knowles:
It sounds so good.

Tami Steggell:
It’s amazing.

Kyle Knowles:
You just have to get on a plane to go there.

Tami Steggell:
My favorite place on earth.

Kyle Knowles:
Wow. That’s so cool. But did you exhibit any entrepreneurial traits growing up?

Tami Steggell:
I don’t know if I did or didn’t.

Kyle Knowles:
Did you have a lemonade stand?

Tami Steggell:
No.

Kyle Knowles:
Did you mow lawns?

Tami Steggell:
Nothing.

Kyle Knowles:
Did you go door-to-door selling magazines, anything like that?

Tami Steggell:
No, because I was always traveling. I say that I grew up in Saudi Arabia, but the truth is, I came here for college, and I’ve been in Utah ever since. So I’ve been in Utah more than any other place in all of my life. But when I moved here, my parents stayed in Saudi Arabia, and so I would fly back for summers and holidays and… Sorry, I don’t know where I was going with that.

Kyle Knowles:
Just entrepreneurial…

Tami Steggell:
Oh yeah.

Kyle Knowles:
If you had the chance to be entrepreneurial.

Tami Steggell:
Yeah, so I really didn’t. I was never still enough to do something like that. But I know that when I would fall asleep at night, I’m always thinking of businesses. I have built entire businesses literally on paper. Other brands, other logos, other menus, and I always get reminded by my family or dear friends, like, “Hey, you already have a great plan, why don’t you stick with that one?” And so I do actually have completely other businesses that I have designed, but have never come to life. So I definitely enjoy the idea of branding a company. I love it. I love the logo design, just all that imagery and the recipe development, and I could just do that for a living, just create companies and brands. If somebody would hire me to do that, I would do it because I love it that much.

Kyle Knowles:
But if someone wants to be an entrepreneur and doesn’t have a good idea, can they come to you?

Tami Steggell:
Probably not.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay. You’re going to keep them all to yourself.

Tami Steggell:
Yeah. It’s a lot of work, and I do it because I love it, but that doesn’t mean-

Kyle Knowles:
But can they buy these ideas from you?

Tami Steggell:
Perhaps, yeah.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay.

Tami Steggell:
Yeah. I have some good ones.

Kyle Knowles:
Are they all food related? Or not?

Tami Steggell:
Yes.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay, awesome. Even including restaurants? Do you have a restaurant idea?

Tami Steggell:
Yes, I sure do.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay. Any wannabe restaurateurs out there…

Tami Steggell:
Yeah. Actually, when I drive around, I’m like, “Ooh, I wish I could buy that building, because I could do this.” But then I remember, that means more work.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay. Well, let’s talk about… You’re traveling, you’re living abroad, and then you came here to college, you went to Brigham Young University, and you studied…

Tami Steggell:
Architectural design, which was kind of a conglomerate of a lot of different programs put together. So I took classes in construction management, I took footings, foundations, plumbing, electrical, HVAC, all of that, and then in the design program, we took all kinds of CAD drawing and things like that. I also happened to work in the civil engineering department at the time, and I was trying to become a civil engineer, but I just decided I needed to be more creative, and the math was a little bit hard. As an architectural designer, you can design a lot of amazing things on paper, watch them come to life, but you do have to pass them through an engineer to make sure they’re structurally sound and safe and all the things. But mostly, I spent most of my career just doing hospitals, clinics, colleges, universities, a lot of boring commercial design and-

Kyle Knowles:
Like putting cubes in?

Tami Steggell:
Most of it was like-

Kyle Knowles:
Designing rooms and stuff?

Tami Steggell:
Yeah, a lot of refurbish projects. But also most of it was just space efficiency, interviewing a company, finding out what their needs are, and making it efficient and solving their problems.

Kyle Knowles:
So tell me what happened, because you graduated, and then you worked in architectural design, and then what was the light bulb? What was the motivation to start your own business?

Tami Steggell:
Well, I say I loved it until I didn’t love it anymore. And I’m all about loving what I’m doing, because why wake up every day and do something you don’t love? And one of the catalysts was 9/11, and it really changed our industry and everybody was competing for dollars. And I just feel like everybody was dropping their drawers for commissions, and I just didn’t love it anymore. It just didn’t feel like the thing I wanted to wake up to every day. And during that period of time, I was a really hardcore cyclist, and so I was eating super clean, and creating these treats for my free days, which happened to be the cookies. And I thought, “I have all these awesome recipes, I should just take them to the public and see if they like them.” And I went for it. I didn’t do a cottage kitchen, I just found this building, refurbished it, and started. And people liked it.

Kyle Knowles:
This building right here?

Tami Steggell:
Yes.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay.

Tami Steggell:
And I just went for it and it worked. And we never… We’ve been loan free, debt free the entire time.

Kyle Knowles:
Wow. So you literally one day put your two weeks notice in…

Tami Steggell:
I quit my job, and I started. Because I think that if you have a little bit of healthy fear, it’s a catalyst. You’ve got to make it or break it. And so I just went for it. And my parents thought I was insane, because I was in a crappy rundown neighborhood, in a really crappy building, and I just fixed it up and I was like, “I’m going to make it worth people’s destination. When they walk through that door, they’re going to get the best cookie they’ve ever had in their whole life, and they’re going to get the best service they ever had in their whole life, and we’re going to care about everyone.” And it worked. That model worked. People come for that reason. That’s what we’re known for.

Kyle Knowles:
What do you do to instill and inspire that, I don’t know, customer satisfaction with your employees?

Tami Steggell:
So we work really hard at having that, “I’ve got your back,” culture and we realize that real life happens, and we’re not so rigid about, “You’ve got to come to work nine to five. That’s it. That’s the way the world works.” We’re more about like, “Oh yeah, you got in a car crash? We got your back. This thing happened? We got your back. Your family member passed away? We got your back. Take all the time you need.” And when people feel like they’re honored and that they mean something to the team, then it pulls everybody together, and it creates this close-knit group, and we just really like to live that way. You met my general manager, she’s a great example. She had a baby, and she didn’t want to do daycare, but she’s amazing and she deserves to be here, so we turned one of our offices into a nursery, and she comes to work every day. The baby comes to work every day, and business goes on, because… And I think COVID did a lot for us that way, to accept families in the workplace.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay. So I’m a new employee and I come to work for RubySnap, is there a corporate video? Is there a PowerPoint you go through? Or is this just lead by example, and everyone-

Tami Steggell:
We do have a handbook, a company handbook, where we’ve built it over the years when we have learning opportunities, because we say there’s no such thing as a mistake, it’s a learning opportunity. Then we document it and we record it and we write it down. But as much as possible, we try to have all of our standards written in a handbook, but it is lead by example. And it’s also, there’s no such thing as a dumb question. And we have a company Slack channel where we can talk to each other daily so that it’s not a he said, she said, everybody reads the same thing. We have monthly team meetings, we have quarterly SWAT interviews, which is strength, weaknesses, opportunities and threats, where we’re always in communication so that we don’t get so far misplaced from each other and build stories in our head, if that makes sense. We try to keep the lines of communication really open all the time. And then we do twice annual company parties, and we just try to really operate family style, but professional.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay. And you’re the chief executive officer or the founder, are you also the chief product officer?

Tami Steggell:
Yes.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay.

Tami Steggell:
Yes, of course.

Kyle Knowles:
And do you have anyone else help you with that? You have the vision, these are the recipes? Or is there anyone else that’s submitting ideas to you?

Tami Steggell:
I own it. I own it a hundred percent. And if you give me an idea, it’s probably not going to happen, because I want it to be my idea. I know that’s a little selfish, but-

Kyle Knowles:
I get it.

Tami Steggell:
Or it’s something that we’ve already created, it’s just been archived. So I really love that piece so much.

Kyle Knowles:
Yeah, I can tell.

Tami Steggell:
That I would never let anybody create a recipe. I would be like, “Nope, not going to happen.”

Kyle Knowles:
So RubySnap is literally TammySnap, basically.

Tami Steggell:
No, I wouldn’t say that, because I have an army of amazing people that work here. We have 27 employees and there’s no way I could do any of this without them.

Kyle Knowles:
For sure.

Tami Steggell:
I am able to do what I do because of them. And yeah, it’s definitely a team effort for sure.

Kyle Knowles:
I get it. But I also understand founders who are that visionary and creator and who are the chief product officer. I understand that.

Tami Steggell:
Yes, for sure. And I love it. It’s what makes me wake up every day. Like this morning I woke up so that I could scale a recipe and get it launched for next week. And I look forward to that. And I write everything in the metric system, and I also write everything in another language. So it is not in English.

Kyle Knowles:
What’s the other language?

Tami Steggell:
Spanish.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay. All right. Because you didn’t learn the metric system in the United States, did you?

Tami Steggell:
It’s international. We’re the only ones that don’t use it.

Kyle Knowles:
I know.

Tami Steggell:
And it’s easier. It’s so much easier.

Kyle Knowles:
It’s so much easier

Tami Steggell:
And it’s precise, and you don’t make mistakes. But I write them both in metric and imperial.

Kyle Knowles:
Yeah. I remember growing up here, I think it was junior high or so, they were pushing the metric system, but then it didn’t really take off. I don’t know what happened, but…

Tami Steggell:
It’s too bad it didn’t, but…

Kyle Knowles:
It’s way too bad. Even the size of paper, you know how they have A4 and all these different sizes, it’s so precise, it so makes sense, and then we’re sitting here with 8 1/2 by 11 inch printer paper.

Tami Steggell:
Yeah. Well, change is hard, I guess, sometimes.

Kyle Knowles:
It is hard. In the United States it’s very hard to change here. So what’s something that most people don’t know about you?

Tami Steggell:
I have no idea. I love the outdoors, but I think everybody knows that. I go to Pilates almost every morning, I played lacrosse in college, in college I was on the men’s tennis club, because I kept beating all the women, so they just moved me to the men’s club. I don’t know.

Kyle Knowles:
All right. I know you’re out there on social media, so probably a lot of people know a lot about you.

Tami Steggell:
I don’t think there’s any secrets anymore.

Kyle Knowles:
Nice. What’s one thing that you would tell someone that decided to put their two weeks in, and start a company? What’s the piece of advice that you would give them?

Tami Steggell:
Well, I love already that they put their two weeks in, because I think a lot of people start and never put their two weeks in, and then they’re too afraid to break away. And I think, again, it’s that healthy fear versus the debilitating fear. You have to have some piece of fire that pushes you forward. And if you don’t have the courage to put in your two weeks, you’re probably not cut out for it. And actually, I have witnessed people who have grown beautiful businesses, but never quit their job, and eventually they quit the business and stay with their job. And so I think just if you love it more than anything, you’re probably going to succeed. And I think a lot of people discount the word passion, but that is an ingredient. You need the passion to be an entrepreneur, because it’s going to be the hardest thing you’ve ever done, and you’re going to have to work harder than you’ve ever worked, and you’re the end all for every decision. When people don’t know what to do, you’re it.

Kyle Knowles:
Yeah, the buck stops with you.

Tami Steggell:
Literally. When every little thing happens, it’s up to you. We had an earthquake, do you remember that? And our power here was out in all of our buildings for a week. Well, we’ve got $150,000 worth of pre-portioned frozen cookie dough waiting to go to grocery stores. What do you do? So we brought in a big, huge giant generator, and we were also able to power up Fisher Brewery. But those are the kinds of problems you have to solve all the time, and it’s not if they happen, it’s when they happen. You have to be ready to act on your feet at all times.

Kyle Knowles:
I like that answer. So what are your thoughts about executive coaching? And if you can talk through that path for you, and getting into executive coaching.

Tami Steggell:
As in having a mentor for myself? Or mentoring others?

Kyle Knowles:
Both.

Tami Steggell:
I’ve never had a mentor for myself. Not for any particular reason, but I would definitely be willing to mentor others, just because I feel that people were good to me on my journey. Other small businesses were good, I could reach out to them, ask questions, and it wasn’t taboo, and it wasn’t a secretive society of, “I can’t tell you how we got successful or who our sources are.” I felt like people were really generous with me, and that was a good lesson to kind of pay it forward.

Kyle Knowles:
Nice. What’s a book that you recommend the most to people?

Tami Steggell:
Oh, gosh. Simon Sinek, I think, has one called Know Your Why, and it helps you to pause and stop and think about what’s really important to you, and how to take that and drive it further. That’s a good one. One of the early books that I super-duper loved was Delivering Happiness by Tony Hsieh, who is the founder of Zappos. And I felt like when I read that book, he reached exactly into my brain and pulled out all my thoughts. And I was like, “Yes, wait, that’s me.” And I loved that book, but I’ve read so many books that are all really, really good. Of course, one of the fundamentals that everybody should read is Dale Carnegie, How to Win Friends and Influence People. And I think that’s just a basic fundamental book.

Kyle Knowles:
That’s a great book, yeah. Yeah, okay. Well, so I have a lightning round of questions, and we can wrap up here in just a few minutes, but what’s your favorite candy bar?

Tami Steggell:
Oh, dang. I don’t know. I’m not much of a candy eater, but when I used to drive my children to Disneyland, I would eat Lemonheads.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay.

Tami Steggell:
And that’s how we came up with our lily cookie, because I wanted an excuse to buy bulk Lemonheads.

Kyle Knowles:
Nice. So you have some Lemonheads in there.

Tami Steggell:
Yeah. We don’t carry that cookie anymore, because Ferrara Pan Company decided to no longer sell bulk. We used to buy 5,000 pounds at a time that.

Kyle Knowles:
Wow.

Tami Steggell:
Yeah, that cookie was so popular.

Kyle Knowles:
So 5,000 pounds of Lemonheads, what’s a rough estimate of how many Lemonheads that is? That’s a lot.

Tami Steggell:
No clue. Yeah, that’s so many.

Kyle Knowles:
Hundreds of thousands, I don’t know. Maybe a million. Crazy. Okay. What’s your favorite musical artist, or who is your favorite musical artist?

Tami Steggell:
Oh, I don’t know. But I do like that genre of Norah Jones, and-

Kyle Knowles:
Folk piano? Something like that?

Tami Steggell:
No, no. I love so much, and honestly, music is kind of my secret… I call it my underwear drawer, because I’m almost embarrassed to show people what I like, because I like so many things, like-

Kyle Knowles:
Well, what are you listening to? And you’re pulling out your phone, so…

Tami Steggell:
I just wanted to… Okay. I have one called Ten Second Vibes where it’s just super trendy, hip, and cool, things that pick me up really fast.

Kyle Knowles:
What’s an example of a song on that playlist? Like a Taylor Swift?

Tami Steggell:
No, no, no, no. I’ll try… Okay. I love Tennessee Whiskey. I definitely love that song a lot. But I love Ting. I can see her face in my head. Oh, well. Anyway, I guess I’m waffling under these rapid fire questions.

Kyle Knowles:
Well, you have your phone there. I know you have some playlists on it.

Tami Steggell:
Oh, okay.

Kyle Knowles:
And you could just list some songs that are on your favorite playlist.

Tami Steggell:
Okay. Let me get there.

Kyle Knowles:
Unless you have an repeat, which Spotify served up to me and shows me all the songs I listen to the most.

Tami Steggell:
For a long time I loved Lake Street Dive, Sir Women, let’s see, St. Paul and The Broken Bones, I really like them, I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of them.

Kyle Knowles:
I haven’t.

Tami Steggell:
But I’ve got everything like Arctic Monkeys, I’ve got Ray… I don’t know how to pronounce his name. Ray LaMontagne.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay.

Tami Steggell:
Do you know who he is?

Kyle Knowles:
I’ve seen the name before, yeah.

Tami Steggell:
Let’s see. John Mayer, love John Mayer, or I used to. I don’t know if I’ve listened to him a lot lately. Is that a good start?

Kyle Knowles:
That’s a great start.

Tami Steggell:
Nora Jones.

Kyle Knowles:
Love Norah Jones.

Tami Steggell:
But I’ve got it all.

Kyle Knowles:
You’ve got an eclectic list there.

Tami Steggell:
I’ve got Lady Gaga, Willie Nelson, Oh He Dead…

Kyle Knowles:
Okay. So this is your underwear drawer.

Tami Steggell:
Yeah, literally.

Kyle Knowles:
Makes sense. That makes sense.

Tami Steggell:
Bill Withers.

Kyle Knowles:
Awesome.

Tami Steggell:
Joss Stone, yeah, she’s one of my favorites. I don’t know if you know her, but she’s got some spine curling, awesome music.

Kyle Knowles:
That’s awesome. I’m going to look up a couple of those that I don’t know. What is your favorite cereal?

Tami Steggell:
Oh man, you’re just getting me all over the place. Probably Honey Bunches of Oats. Actually, it’s one at Costco. It’s like a pumpkin flax seed…

Kyle Knowles:
Kind of an oatmeal thing?

Tami Steggell:
It’s kind of like a really lighthearted granola with puffed rice and oats and pumpkin seeds and flax and… From Costco.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay. Mac or PC?

Tami Steggell:
PC. I know, that’s so unpopular.

Kyle Knowles:
So surprising for someone that loves Adobe Illustrator.

Tami Steggell:
Yeah, people are always shocked, but I’ll tell you why. My laptop has four terabyte. You can’t get that in a Mac. And I have all these hardcore, heavy duty software programs that I run simultaneously, and a PC can handle it. And also, my major driver is the filing system. I hate Mac’s filing system. And I just feel like their computers are seriously overpriced. And you could get 10 times the computer out of a PC than you can a Mac with four terabyte. For a quarter-

Kyle Knowles:
Those are kind of fighting words, because I’m a Mac user.

Tami Steggell:
I know.

Kyle Knowles:
And I see you have a Mac on your wrist and you have a Mac phone.

Tami Steggell:
I have an Apple watch, an Apple phone, and I’m a diehard iPhone lover.

Kyle Knowles:
That’s surprising. Because the ecosystem, having it all on the Mac is pretty cool.

Tami Steggell:
But remember, I’m creative and methodical.

Kyle Knowles:
Yeah, that’s true. Maybe that’s just-

Tami Steggell:
So I can be Mac and PC.

Kyle Knowles:
That’s your manager side. You make things with your Mac, and then you manage things with your PC. That makes sense. If you think of the commercials, I’m a Mac, I’m a PC, and just look at what those two dudes looked like. One of them was a manager and one of them was a creative.

Tami Steggell:
I am not an Android lover. Period.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay. I can go back to respecting you.

Tami Steggell:
Okay.

Kyle Knowles:
I’m just joking. I’m just teasing

Tami Steggell:
No, I think Apple is a phenomenal company.

Kyle Knowles:
Yeah. So Google or Microsoft? In other words, Google, like-

Tami Steggell:
Google.

Kyle Knowles:
Do you use that for mail and documents and things? Or do you use Microsoft Outlook and Word?

Tami Steggell:
Oh, gosh.

Kyle Knowles:
And Excel.

Tami Steggell:
See, I use both.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay.

Tami Steggell:
I was born and bred on Word, but I’m a Google lover for analytics, and SEO. Google owns the world.

Kyle Knowles:
Yeah, pretty much. Dogs or cats?

Tami Steggell:
Dogs. Dogs. Dogs. Love dogs.

Kyle Knowles:
Phantom or Les Mis?

Tami Steggell:
Ooh, Les Mis for sure.

Kyle Knowles:
What’s a piece of advice that someone gave to you, either about life or about entrepreneurship and work? What was the best piece of advice that someone gave to you?

Tami Steggell:
Life’s not fair. Figure out a solution and just keep on trucking. And that came from my dad, and that came in really handy a lot of times, because when our trademark was taken away, I was really sad about it, but I was like, “You know, he’s right. Life isn’t fair.” So I put my emotions on the shelf, and made the best business decision and moved forward. So life isn’t fair, life doesn’t owe us anything, but you get to create your story. And my biggest pet peeve is being a victim of something. And I’m nobody’s victim, and I never will be. And I’m going to create my own story no matter what happens.

Kyle Knowles:
I love it. I love that advice. And how long did it take for your… Was it your mom that thought you were crazy? Or was it your mom and dad that who thought you were crazy?

Tami Steggell:
Both of them.

Kyle Knowles:
Okay. They both thought you were crazy. How many years did it take for them to go, “Oh, there might be something to this.”

Tami Steggell:
Yeah. Well my dad still jokes, “It’ll never work.” But I think he’s really proud of the fact that it did work right away. Because I think he truly thought I was crazy. I quit my job, I cashed out all my savings, which wasn’t very much, it was $10,000, and I didn’t have a firm plan, but I think I’m kind of grateful I didn’t know everything I needed to know, or I’d have been too chicken to start. I think you just sometimes just have to go for it, and just start. And yeah, it’s been the best decision ever. Literally changed my life. And I think it’s changed a lot of lives of people who work here too. And if you could just go ask our bakery manager, she’ll tell you that unsolicited, because I feel like we love it. I have some employees that have been here the whole 15 years.

Kyle Knowles:
Wow.

Tami Steggell:
Yeah.

Kyle Knowles:
That’s incredible.

Tami Steggell:
People don’t leave. So it’s just been great, and I’m really grateful for it.

Kyle Knowles:
And what are some key learnings from being an entrepreneur?

Tami Steggell:
I think just patience is a virtue. Just don’t rush into things. Slow down to do a good job. Slow down to make the right decisions. Slow down to do things well. And then that makes life faster, or more efficient, when you pull in the reins, and you make a good assessment, a good evaluation, and then you proceed. Then you actually are more efficient. And that’s something we teach internally too. Just slow down. It’s going to be fine. Don’t stress, it’s just cookies. And then when you give people permission to be calm, things go better.

Kyle Knowles:
I like it. I like it a lot. So thank you so much, Tami, for being so generous with your time. I love doing the RubySnap research, and I had so much fun with that, and I’m probably going to go next door and take some of the oatmeal cookies home.

Tami Steggell:
Awesome.

Kyle Knowles:
So I can try the… What did you call it? If you eat them right after…

Tami Steggell:
It’s like a cobbler.

Kyle Knowles:
Like a cobbler, yes.

Tami Steggell:
It’s so good.

Kyle Knowles:
And I love cobblers.

Tami Steggell:
It’s better than a cobbler. And then put some vanilla bean ice cream on it. Hot cookie a la mode. So good.

Kyle Knowles:
I’m going to do it. So I’m going to continue-

Tami Steggell:
Yes. I’m going to share a bag with you so you can go try it.

Kyle Knowles:
Oh, well I’m going to continue the research, but I loved hearing about your entrepreneurial journey. I loved hearing how, you continue that maker kind of mindset outside of work after you’ve spent most of the day maybe managing, and I think your story is so inspiring to me, and I hope it inspires others. But thank you so much for sitting down with me tonight.

Tami Steggell:
Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Kyle Knowles:
Awesome. This is like a Zoom call. I’m always like, “Thank you very… Okay, goodbye.”

Tami Steggell:
No, no. Thank you.

Kyle Knowles:
No, see you next time.

Tami Steggell:
I know.

Kyle Knowles:
No, thank you.

Tami Steggell:
Peace out.

Kyle Knowles:
Peace out. You don’t know what to do.